Are these illegitimate births?

[FloridaGerman1]

My gratitude goes out to anyone who can help me with these two baptism records. My apologies for not knowing much German. I'm still learning to make out the letters but I'm pretty good a seeing repeating patterns.

I have two records that don't look like the rest of them, so I am assuming that if the last name does not appear next to the first name, the the record is for a child without a legitimate father.

Below I have written what I understand from these two records. I would be so thankful if someone could look at them and tell me if I am mis-understanding and if there is any additional information that might be of interest to the American Cousins.

This first record: http://www.archion.de/p/63f2c7a822/

#12, Thansuss 25 September
Jacob born to Margaritha Kohl, daughter of Georg Kohl, Webermeister from Thansuss, was born on 25 September (1823). I can see the name Johannes Schmidt at the end of the item (at the top of the "2nd" page). Was this the father?
This record is exciting for me because it would mean Georg had a daughter we did not know about.

My second record: http://www.archion.de/p/8aac0c2f6f/
16.Thansuss
Johann, born to Elisabeth Krauss on 25th of August (1833). I can see at the bottom of the entry: Friederich Kohl, webermeister from Thansuss.
I know Friederich Kohl to be the father. Johann became John F. Kohl when the family moved to Wisconsin, USA. He had 9 children of his own who each had many children.

Thank you in advance of any help,
Joseph Kohl,
a 3x great grandson of Georg Kohl, webermeister from Thansuss.

 

[frauch84]

This first record: http://www.archion.de/p/63f2c7a822/

#12, Thansuss 25 September
Jacob born to Margaritha Kohl, daughter of Georg Kohl, Webermeister from Thansuss, was born on 25 September (1823). I can see the name Johannes Schmidt at the end of the item (at the top of the "2nd" page). Was this the father?
This record is exciting for me because it would mean Georg had a daughter we did not know about.

Hello Joseph,

Jacob was indeed an illegitimate son of Margaretha Kohl:
"Jacob, unehelich / ein uneheliches Söhnlein der Margaretha Kohl." He was born on September 25th, 1843, and baptized on September 28th, 1843.

The last sentence reads as the following:
"Nach Angabe der Frau soll Johannes Schmidt, Schmidtsohn aus Kaltenbrunn, der Vater dieses Kindes seyn". = "According to the woman (i.e. Margaretha Kohl), Johannes Schmidt, son of Schmidt in Kaltenbrunn, is said to be the father of the child."

Johann was also an illegitimate child:
"Johann, ein uneheliches Söhnlein der Elisabeth Krauss [...]"
The last sentence reads as the following:
"Nach Angabe der Kindsmutter soll Friedrich Kohl, Webermeister aus Thansuss, Vater seyn". = "According to the mother, Friedrich Kohl, weaver from Thansuss, is said to be the father."

I hope I was able to help you

 

[vnagel2004]

Joseph,

no need to apologize for anything, and right upfront, your understanding of these two birth resp. baptism records is absolute correct.

Both children were born illegitimately.

#1
12. Thansüß den 25 Sept.

Jacob, unehlich
ein unehliches Söhnlein der Margaretha Kohl, des Georg Kohl Weber
meister zu Thannsüß älterer Tochter, wurde gebohren den 25. Sept Abends
5 Uhr, und am 28tn darauf in der Kirche zu Thannsüß getauft.
Als Taufpath wurde erwählt, Jacob Götz Dienstknecht zu Thansüß. Nach
Angabe der Dirne soll Johannes Schmidt, Schmidtsohn von Kaltenbrunn
der Vater dieses Kindes seyn.
Hebamme: Regina Harrer

#12, Thansuess September, 25
Jacob, illegitimate
an illegitimate son of Margaretha Kohl, the elder daughter of Georg Kohl, master weaver at Thansuess, was born on September 25 in the evening at 5 o'clock, and was baptized at the church of Thansuess on the following (September) 28.
As godparent was chosen Jacob Goetz, a farm hand at Thansuess.
According to the whore/wench/hooker, the said to be father of this child is Johannes Schmidt, smith's sohn from Kaltenbrunn
Midwife: Regina Harrer

#########################

#2
16 Thannsüß
(Zusatz: Ist nach Amerika aus-
gewandert)
Johann, ein uneheliches Söhnlein der Elisabetha Krauß, Bauers-
tochter des Johann Krauß daselbst, wurde gebohren Sonntags den
25 August morgens um 10 Uhr und am 28 darauf im Pfarr-
hause getauft. Taufpath ist: Johann Kempf, Fleischhackers
Gesell, dermal in K. B. Gensdarmes zu Regensburg. In des-
sen Abwesenheit vertrit die Stelle Johann Faust, Meßner
dahier. Hebamme ??? ??? Nach Angabe der Kindesmutter soll
Friedrich Kohl Webergeselle zu Thansüß
Vater seyn
(Zusatz: Sind nun ehelich verbunden)

#16 Thansuess
(later added note: emigrated to America)
Johann, an illegimate son of Elisabetha Krauss, farmer's daughter of Johann Krauss, a local resident, was born on Sunday August 25 in the morning at 10 o'clock and was baptized on the following 28th at the parish house.
Godparent is: Johann Kempf, journeyman butcher, at the time being serving in Regensburg at the Royal Bavarian gendarmes. Due to his absence he was represented by Johannes Faust, a sacristan here.
Midwife ??? ???
According to the child's mother the said to be father is Friedrich Kohl journeyman weaver at Thansuess.
(later added note: both are married now)

Vera

 

[FloridaGerman1]

Thank you both very much. With these examples I am hoping to recognize more words.
-Joseph