I wonder what the judgmental Revered says about these children?

F

FloridaGerman1

Thank you in advance for any help you can afford me.

I have this GG Aunt and Uncle, Elisabeth Krauss and Gottfried (Friederich) Kohl who were pregnant with twins at the time of their marriage in 1836 in Thansuess Bavaria. They married just a month or so before the birth of the twins.

Here is the twins’ birth record: http://www.archion.de/p/ce43de2127/

In this record I can see two numbers (two births) and there is a notation about their deaths. The boys’ names were Andreas Kohl, and Georg Andreas Kohl. The father was the Master Weaver, Friederich Kohl, and Elisabeth Krauss. The children were born on 7 October, and baptized on the 8th. Most of the text in this record I do not understand.

Andreas lived only 2 months, dying on 24 December. His death record with the matching date is: http://www.archion.de/p/77fdaf8d45/
He died on 24 December, and was buried on the 26th. That must have been one sad Christmas for the family! He was 2 months and 17 days old.

Georg Andreas lived only about 4 years. His death record with the matching date is: http://www.archion.de/p/61f985738f/
He died on 1 April (1841) and was buried on the 6th. He was 4 years, 6 months, and 7 days old.

Anything you can let me know about their births and deaths would be fascinating to know. There is no record in the United States of these children ever having been born to this couple who raised 9 other children in Wisconsin, USA after they immigrated.

Thank You,
Joseph Kohl

 
Hallo Joseph,

I can help you with the text in the birth record:

The most important dates you already know.

The first twin was born in the evening at 8 o´clock and the other a quarter of an hour later. The next day the twins were baptized in the house of their parents. The Name of the godfather is Andreas, but the surname I can´t read. He was a carpenter and "Gütler" (this means a small farmer) from the same village.

I hope I could help you.
I´m sorry for the bad English, but it´s difficult for me to use another language.

 
Hallo Joseph,

the text in the death record of the second twin Georg Andreas means:

Georg Andreas, matrimonial second twin son of the weaver master Gottfried Kohl in Thansüß died on the whooping cough 1. April in the morning at 6 o´clock and was buried 3. April.
His Age was 4 years, 6 month less 7 days
 
Hi Sil,

As far as I can see, your English is perfect. There is no need for you to be self-conscious. I'm indebted to you for your help.

It looks like you taught me something important! In these death records, at the end where they write the age of the person: Sometimes they subtract days from the years and the months and sometimes they add days to the years and months. I am looking at other examples and now I can see this word "Weniger" meaning "less." Am I correct that sometimes this is abbreviated as "w:" ? And when the days are in addition to the years and months they would write "und" ?

Thank you so much for your help,
Joseph
 
Hi Joseph,

yes, that´s right.

und = and +
weniger = less -

Maybe sometimes there is only a "w" or "wen." abbreviated for "weniger".

But you have to be careful. In this old script a "u" (for und) sometimes seems to be a "w". In hesitation you have to do a calculation.

In the record of the first twin I can´t read the cause of death surely. But the rest of the record means:


Andreas Kohl, matrimonial older twin son of the weaver master Friedrich Kohl in Thansüß died in the morning at 4 o´clock and was buried on 26th. Age: 2 months and 17 days.

Greetings
Silke
 
Hi Silke,

Can I trouble you again? In the birth record for the twins, http://www.archion.de/p/ce43de2127/ after the name of the Sponsor Andreas ___ and after the word 'Gütler,' what does it say? I recognize the last name 'Herbst' at the end. Friederich's sister married Paulus Herbst, so this is a family name.

And I can see what looks like a 'w:' is this Reverend's abbreviation for "und" because it is located between Zimmermann and Gütler.

Thank you,
-Joseph
 
Hi Joseph,

the word after the Name Andreas I can´t read, I´m sorry. Maybe it´s a part of the surname. Reading this old script is sometimes difficult for me, because I´m a beginner. Sometimes I have still trouble to make out the letters. But the script in your records is easy to read exept of this two words.

The word after "Gütler" is "daselbst". It is difficult to explain but in latin language it means "ibidem". Some Reverends use the latin form. "Daselbst" is an old expression for there, on the same place... for example: The twins were born in Thansüß and they died "daselbst" (in the same village/the same place)
 
@sil2910
But you have to be careful. In this old script a "u" (for und) sometimes seems to be a "w".
Zum Vergrößern anklicken....

I'm sorry, but no, Silke. There is no "w" representing a "u".




@FloridaGerman1
And I can see what looks like a 'w:' is this Reverend's abbreviation for "und"...
Zum Vergrößern anklicken....

Sorry again, but there is no "w:" - instead this reads and need to be deciphered as "ud:" an abbreviation for German "und" = English "and".

Vera
 
@ death record for Andreas Kohl (first born twin)

16. Thansüß
Andreas Kohl, eheliches älteres Zwillings-Söhnlein, des We-
ber Meisters Friedrich Kohl in Thansüß, starb am Steckkatahr den
24. December, Morgens um 4 Uhr, ud: wurde den 26. darauf be-
graben. 2 Monate ud: 17 Tage alt.


Steckkatahr = Steckkathar = diphteria
ud: = und = and

Vera
 
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