Transcription Help with Two Related Baptisms

[charbayes]

Can I please get some help with these two related baptisms associated with my ancestor? Christian's baptism in 1748 seems to make some sort of note referring to the 1746 baptism of his sibling?

This is what I can decipher:

#1

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Crien 17 Aug: Johan Gottfried Malings
[...]

Catrien Marie

Testes.
Cath. [...]
Mar. Louise [...]
Martien [...]

#2

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Crien 22 Jul: Johan Gottfrieds Mahlings
[...]
[...] gf: 1746 17 Aug

Christian Andres

Testes.
Andr: Zellen(?)ien
Christian
Marie Schulten (?)

 

[vnagel2004]

#1

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Crien 17 Aug: Johan Gottfried Malings
[...]

Catrien Marie

Testes.
Cath. [...]
Mar. Louise [...]
Martien [...]

Crien d[en] 17. Aug[ust] [1746] Johann Gottfried
Malings
(in Unzucht mit
der Anitaen Geissens,
da Er mit seiner
ersten Fr[au] in Sachsen
nohc nicht völlig
geschieden, ge-
zeugtes Töchterlein
Catrien Marie

Testes
Cath[arina] Breitsp...hers
Mar[ie] Louise Blancken
Martien Nienkirchen

 

[vnagel2004]

#2

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Crien 22 Jul: Johan Gottfrieds Mahlings
[...]
[...] gf: 1746 17 Aug

Christian Andres

Testes.
Andr: Zellen(?)ien
Christian
Marie Schulten (?)

Crien d[en] 22. Jul[y] [1748] Johann Gottfrieds
Mehlings
Söhnlein
Christian
Andres
aber eins [eines] in Un-
zucht gezeugt
cf [Latin: confer - see also] 1746 d[en] 17. Aug[ust]

Testes
Andr[eas] Zellentien
Christian
Marie Schulten

 

[charbayes]

Thank you so much for your help!

This is very interesting.

Would the "see also 1746 17 Aug" note suggest that both Catrien and Andres had the same unnamed mother? Or does that note simply mean that Gottfrried (the father) was still not divorced from his first wife?

 

[vnagel2004]

Catrien's mother is named in that record > Anita Geissen / Geiss

....fathered in fornication [illegitimately] with....

confer / see also simply refers to the previous record = another illegitimate child of this father

Whether the father still wasn't divorced in 1748 and had therefore not been able to get married to this mother's child in time, or if he was already divorced but simply wasn't married to this mother's child is not clearly differentiable from this entry for me.

 

[vnagel2004]

Testes
Cath[arina] Breitsp...hers

her family name is: Breitsprecher

 

[vnagel2004]

Geissens,

Correction: not Geissen or Geiss ----- but instead: Geistens / Geist

for reference please see here: https://www.archion.de/p/941b97c079/

Please excuse my mistake.

 

[charbayes]

Catrien's mother is named in that record > Anita Geissen / Geiss

....fathered in fornication [illegitimately] with....

confer / see also simply refers to the previous record = another illegitimate child of this father

Whether the father still wasn't divorced in 1748 and had therefore not been able to get married to this mother's child in time, or if he was already divorced but simply wasn't married to this mother's child is not clearly differentiable from this entry for me.

Thank you for the clarification! I was thinking that the first wife was Anita Geist - not the mother of Catrien. This is so interesting!

My ancestor is Christian Andres Maehling - the 1748 baptism. Could I infer that his mother is also Anita Geist? Since his record referred to the 1746 baptism?

 

[vnagel2004]

Could I infer that his mother is also Anita Geist? Since his record referred to the 1746 baptism?

To be honest: I am kind of reluctant to consent to this.

Are the any later born (after 1748) legitimate(!) children of Johann Gottfried Mehling / Maehling?

Or, did you find his marriage?

 

[charbayes]

To be honest: I am kind of reluctant to consent to this.

Are the any later born (after 1748) legitimate(!) children of Johann Gottfried Mehling / Maehling?

Or, did you find his marriage?

Unfortunately, it looks like marriages in Krien on Archion start in 1766. Does that mean that earlier marriages have been lost to time?

These are the only two children that I could find, but I will keep digging. It seems that Christian Andres stayed in this parish - his children were baptized in Crien as well. Still looking for his marriage as well.

 

[vnagel2004]

1752 (first record) death of Catrien [Catharina] Marie

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—————

As an aside as: this „mixed“ church books also contains the Tr. = Trauungen / marriages prior to 1766.

 

[charbayes]

1752 (first record) death of Catrien [Catharina] Marie

Viewer

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—————

As an aside as: this „mixed“ church books also contains the Tr. = Trauungen / marriages prior to 1766.

Thank you so much for all of your help. I have learned so much from you!

 

[vnagel2004]

Today I've spent some time with the church registers for Krien, in hopes to perhaps find any additional entries for this Mehling / Maehling family, which may shed some additional light on that "marriage yes / no question" being discussed above.

So far I haven't been successful, sorry.

In 1775 I came across a baptism of Christian Andres [Andreas] Maehling's child.

Do you know when and where he got married?

 

[charbayes]

Today I've spent some time with the church registers for Krien, in hopes to perhaps find any additional entries for this Mehling / Maehling family, which may shed some additional light on that "marriage yes / no question" being discussed above.

So far I haven't been successful, sorry.

In 1775 I came across a baptism of Christian Andres [Andreas] Maehling's child.

Do you know when and where he got married?

I appreciate this greatly!

This is what I have put together:

Christian Andreas Maehling firstly married Margareth Marie Wollers. No marriage has been located so far unfortunately; I have looked in Krien, Iven, Anklam, Kartlow, Liepen, Teterin, and Gramzow so far. They had at least two children:

1) Moritz Friederich Maehling - 20 Apr 1775 - Krien
2) Christine Julienne Maehling - 20 Jun 1777 - Krien

Christian Andreas Maehling secondly married Marie Dorthie Schulten on 02 May 1794 in Dennin. They had at least six children. So, I have a gap between 1777 and 1794 as well with him.

Here is the 1794 marriage: https://www.archion.de/p/6766dd6384/

Does this marriage record give any helpful information?

 

[vnagel2004]

Does this marriage record give any helpful information?

Not really.

He was a widower when he remarried in 1794, being 46 years old (> which leads to a calculated year of birth 1748 - being a "perfect match" with his proven year of birth) and the record provides his place of birth as "Crien" [Krien]

And the death / burial record of his first wife on February 8, 1794 also doesn't provide anything "of special interest".

Viewer

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[charbayes]

Not really.

He was a widower when he remarried in 1794, being 46 years old (> which leads to a calculated year of birth 1748 - being a "perfect match" with his proven year of birth) and the record provides his place of birth as "Crien" [Krien]

And the death / burial record of his first wife on February 8, 1794 also doesn't provide anything "of special interest".

Viewer

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Thank you for finding his first wife's death record! I hadn't been able to find that.

Do you mind helping me with a transcription of his 1794 marriage? I'm trying to record every detail that I can find. I can see:

2 May: Christian Andrees Maehling [...] ([...] Crien (?) [...]) und Marie Dorthie Schulten [...] Casper Schulten [...] Dennin [...] 46 jahs 27 jahs

 

[vnagel2004]

Do you mind helping me with a transcription of his 1794 marriage? I'm trying to record every detail that I can find.

Here you go....


Heiraten Dennin 1794

d[en] 2 tn May Christian Andrees Maehling Hirte (aus Crien gebürtig), 46 Jahr, und
Marie Dorthie Schulten, s[eeligen] Casper Schultens gew[esenen] Einwohners zu Dennin eh[liche] Tochter im 27 tn Jahr

(see the column headings on the left side) [the couple being married is classified as] 1 "Wittwer unter 60 Jahre mit Jungfrau" [widower under 60 with virgin]


seeligen = deceased
gewesenen = former
ehliche / eheliche = legitimate

 

[charbayes]

Here you go....


Heiraten Dennin 1794

d[en] 2 tn May Christian Andrees Maehling Hirte (aus Crien gebürtig), 46 Jahr, und
Marie Dorthis Schulten, s[eeligen] Casper Schultens gew[esenen] Einwohners zu Dennin eh[liche] Tochter im 27 tn Jahr

(see the column headings on the left side) [the couple being married is classified as] 1 "Wittwer unter 60 Jahre mit Jungfrau" [widower under 60 with virgin]


seeligen = deceased
gewesenen = former
ehliche / eheliche = legitimate

Thank you for the tip! I didn't realize that the columns gave helpful information. I appreciate you explaining all of this. I am new to German records, but I find this fascinating.

That is interesting that she is listed as a virgin.

I found this record in Dennin. I believe that this is a baptism record of a baby of the same Marie Dorthie Schulten in 1792 before she was married to Christian Andreas in 1794. Again, I'm frustrated that I cannot transcribe these entries myself successfully.

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Marie Dorthie Schulten [...] 24 Sept: [...] 12 [...] Marie Dorthie [...] 1, Dorthie Wu[...]berger, Iven (?) [...], 2, Trix Marie Ko[...] [...] Med[...], 3, Johan Jacob Krüger

To me, if this is her, then she was not a virgin before marrying Christian Andreas?

 

[vnagel2004]

That is interesting that she is listed as a virgin.

Well, the record text itself doesn't explicitly tell this (as it doesn't provide the information that the groom is a widower); it's only the text of the column heading which classifies the bride as such.

(German) Jungfrau / Jungfer - literally translates to English as: virgin; it may however also mean > unmarried woman.

----------------------

In order to prove that the lady giving birth to this illegitimate child in 1792 is really her, you need to find the bride's birth/baptism record (she's about 27 years old in 1794, her father is Casper / Caspar and he is already deceased when this couple got married).

Family name is: Schulte - without the final / trailing "n" which only indicates that the name is provided as a declination of the original name, say in the genitive case. ....... She's the daughter of someone - or the other way round: she's Caspar Schultes daughter.

-----------------------

I found this record in Dennin. I believe that this is a baptism record of a baby of the same Marie Dorthie Schulten in 1792 before she was married to Christian Andreas in 1794. Again, I'm frustrated that I cannot transcribe these entries myself successfully.

Viewer

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[Geburten/Taufen Dennin 1792]

Marie Dorthie Schulten, ein Dienstmädgen [Dienstmädchen], hat den 24 Sept[ember] [1792] mitt[ags] um 12 Uhr eine Tochter ge-
bohren [geboren], welches eodem, weil es schwach und unzeitig, getauft und genannt ist: Marie Dorthie
Taufzeugen sind 1. Dorthie Wüstenbergs, Dienstmädgen [Dienstmädchen] beym [bei dem] Holländer, 2. Trin Marie Kosbach,
ein Mädgen [Mädchen], 3. Johann Jacob Krüger, Knecht aufm [auf dem] Hofe.

[on the right of this record] +
[indicating that this child most likely died young - see if you can find this little girl's death record "close" to September 1792]

[relevant column heading on the left of this record]

Mädglein [Mädchen - girls]
unehelich [illegitimate / born out of wedlock]

[This is record no. 25 in this year; the birth of the 11th girl and the 3rd illegitimately born girl]



eodem = Latin > English: [baptized] on this same day [September 24 1792]

"weil es schwach und unzeitig" > because it was weak and a "preemie" / premature birth

"Holländer" > a dairy farmer
[for more details see "Variante 2" here: https://wiki.genealogy.net/Holländer ]